Scritto da: Ordine
>
> Mussolini (come Hitler) fece amicizia con gli islamici in chiave antimondialista e antiebraica
rincoglionito bamba del cazzo, queste sono falsita' che piu' false di cosi' non si puo'.
negli anni 30 il "mondialismo" era l'impero britannico e l'ordine e contesto culturale di "globalismo" che c'era prima della guerra non ha nulla a che vedere con cosa e' cominciato a Yalta e che cosa si e' realizzato dopo il 1989, con in mezzo tutta la storia dell'UN.
Pirla rincoglionito ignorante terrone merdoso del cazzo parli sempre a vanvera, quando te ne esci con queste minchiate qua saresti proprio da rimandare nella fogna terrona da cui vieni a mazzate sul quel nasone di merda che ti ritrovi.
sparare cazzate di questo tipo e poi venirmi a fare gli offesi perche' i vincitori hanno sottolineato dove ha sbagliato il nemico e' totalmente assurdo tra l'altro, solita dimostrazione di quanto siate pieni solo di merda pressata tu e quell'altro.
Va dar via el cul, terun.
>
> Mussolini (come Hitler) fece amicizia con gli islamici in chiave antimondialista e antiebraica
rincoglionito bamba del cazzo, queste sono falsita' che piu' false di cosi' non si puo'.
negli anni 30 il "mondialismo" era l'impero britannico e l'ordine e contesto culturale di "globalismo" che c'era prima della guerra non ha nulla a che vedere con cosa e' cominciato a Yalta e che cosa si e' realizzato dopo il 1989, con in mezzo tutta la storia dell'UN.
Pirla rincoglionito ignorante terrone merdoso del cazzo parli sempre a vanvera, quando te ne esci con queste minchiate qua saresti proprio da rimandare nella fogna terrona da cui vieni a mazzate sul quel nasone di merda che ti ritrovi.
sparare cazzate di questo tipo e poi venirmi a fare gli offesi perche' i vincitori hanno sottolineato dove ha sbagliato il nemico e' totalmente assurdo tra l'altro, solita dimostrazione di quanto siate pieni solo di merda pressata tu e quell'altro.
Va dar via el cul, terun.
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Scritto da
Nazi Heidi
Wakkus Horribilis
il 2018-02-25 23:15:26.0 alle 2018-02-25 23:15:26.0
Trollate totali: 4162
Scritto da:
> Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> > Scritto da:
> > > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
> >
> > Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
>
> In questo caso ha ragione Mattia perché a quei tempi i repubblicani erano un partito liberale, libertarian.
Se è per quello era anche probabilmente gaio... direi a questo punto che era per questo che era contro la schiavitù, non perché fosse liberale.
http://wesclark.com/jw/gay_abe.html
Oltre questo era pure un patriota... si metterebbe ad urlare a leggere le stronzate che scrive Mattia al riguardo.

**Modificato dall'autore il 25.02.2018 23:17**
> Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> > Scritto da:
> > > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
> >
> > Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
>
> In questo caso ha ragione Mattia perché a quei tempi i repubblicani erano un partito liberale, libertarian.
Se è per quello era anche probabilmente gaio... direi a questo punto che era per questo che era contro la schiavitù, non perché fosse liberale.

http://wesclark.com/jw/gay_abe.html

Oltre questo era pure un patriota... si metterebbe ad urlare a leggere le stronzate che scrive Mattia al riguardo.


**Modificato dall'autore il 25.02.2018 23:17**
Nobody is more inferior than those who insist on being equal. - Nietzsche
Scritto da
Nazi Heidi
Wakkus Horribilis
il 2018-02-25 23:07:23.0 alle 2018-02-25 23:07:23.0
Trollate totali: 4162
Scritto da:
> Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> > Scritto da:
> > > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
> >
> > Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
>
> Da wikipedia.
>
> Tendenza politica: liberalismo classico.
È lo stesso Lincoln che si definisce un conservatore, chiaramente ai sinistri di oggi piacerebbe che fosse uno di loro, ma non lo era. Era un repubblicano e un conservatore e il termine liberale come lo usi tu non gli si applica se non ad ALCUNI aspetti della sua vita, ma non in altri... come accade SEMPRE nella vita reale. Siccome però era generalmente contrario alla schiavitù allora improvvisamente è "liberale"... dimenticandosi che era contrario alla schiavitù semplicemente per motivi di tradizione religiosa... quindi se vuoi proprio ringraziare la fine della schiavitù in USA ringrazia la religione.
Te l'ho detto e te lo ripeto, usi parole per riferirti a concetti che non esistono nella realtà perché la realtà non è in bianco e nero e fai cherry picking di volta in volta per dare a quelle parole significati diversi al fine di adattarle a come ti fa comodo.
> Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> > Scritto da:
> > > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
> >
> > Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
>
> Da wikipedia.
>
> Tendenza politica: liberalismo classico.
È lo stesso Lincoln che si definisce un conservatore, chiaramente ai sinistri di oggi piacerebbe che fosse uno di loro, ma non lo era. Era un repubblicano e un conservatore e il termine liberale come lo usi tu non gli si applica se non ad ALCUNI aspetti della sua vita, ma non in altri... come accade SEMPRE nella vita reale. Siccome però era generalmente contrario alla schiavitù allora improvvisamente è "liberale"... dimenticandosi che era contrario alla schiavitù semplicemente per motivi di tradizione religiosa... quindi se vuoi proprio ringraziare la fine della schiavitù in USA ringrazia la religione.
Te l'ho detto e te lo ripeto, usi parole per riferirti a concetti che non esistono nella realtà perché la realtà non è in bianco e nero e fai cherry picking di volta in volta per dare a quelle parole significati diversi al fine di adattarle a come ti fa comodo.
Nobody is more inferior than those who insist on being equal. - Nietzsche
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 22:50:02.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:50:02.0
Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> Scritto da:
> > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
>
> Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
Da wikipedia.
Tendenza politica: liberalismo classico.


https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln 
Il partito repubblicano era conservatore, ma Lincoln e altri del partito avevano visioni più liberali e progressiste rispetto ai conservatori tipici.
I conservatori con la testa più quadrata a quel erano nel Partito Democratico (che infatti si opponeva all'abolizione della schiavitù), mentre i repubblicani erano più liberali e più progressisti.
Alcuni ritengono se Lincoln risorgesse, oggi andrebbe con i democratici.
> Scritto da:
> > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
>
> Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
Da wikipedia.
Tendenza politica: liberalismo classico.


Il partito repubblicano era conservatore, ma Lincoln e altri del partito avevano visioni più liberali e progressiste rispetto ai conservatori tipici.
I conservatori con la testa più quadrata a quel erano nel Partito Democratico (che infatti si opponeva all'abolizione della schiavitù), mentre i repubblicani erano più liberali e più progressisti.
Alcuni ritengono se Lincoln risorgesse, oggi andrebbe con i democratici.
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 22:46:44.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:46:44.0
Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> Scritto da:
> > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
>
> Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
In questo caso ha ragione Mattia perché a quei tempi i repubblicani erano un partito liberale, libertarian.
> Scritto da:
> > Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
>
> Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
In questo caso ha ragione Mattia perché a quei tempi i repubblicani erano un partito liberale, libertarian.
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Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 22:44:45.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:44:45.0
Scritto da:
> Scritto da:
> > Scritto da:
> > > Scritto da:
> > > > Mattia sveglia, oggi i politici di maggioranza non stanno semplicemente governando secondo le loro idee un paese che appartiene anche all'opposizione, mettono in pratica veri e propri atti di aggressione e distruzione dell'avversario
> > >
> > > Come aveva scritto Avve, la democrazia è solo un altro modo per farsi la guerra.
> >
> > Ma allora la guerra è guerra, non una partita, e fare una strage di rampolli del PD locale al campeggio su un'isola è un modo perfettamente valido di combattere.
>
> Il PD utilizza la violenza? No. Perciò non è affatto un modo valido di combattere quello di cui parli.
Se mi stai distruggendo con l'economia e la finanza, a colpi di leggi e carte bollate non mi frega un cazzo che non sia un filmato gore, io rispondo con armi a cui è più semplice l'accesso. E tu credi che il popolo abbia più facilmente accesso al controllo di banche o all'acquisto di un mitragliatore al mercato nero?
P.S. In tutto questo discorso "io" e "tu" vanno intesi in senso impersonale, se mai non si fosse capito. "Io" rappresenta quanti ne hanno piene le palle del PD(L) e di un modo di governare che dura almeno dal 1995, qualsiasi siano i motivi di questa opposizione, che possono essere simili ai miei o completamente diversi.
> La guerra al PD la devi fare con gli stessi mezzi NON VIOLENTI che utilizza anche lui.
In guerra ognuno usa i mezzi che ha.
> Non venire a dirmi che creare un partito non è possibile che fa opposizione al PD non è possibile: è possibile eccome, devi solo tirar fuori la paglia dal culo.
>
> Non è una questione di soldi, giornali e complotti vari... è solo questione di raccogliere consensi. Se il tuo partito dice delle cose che piacciono alla gente viene votato, altrimenti no.
Tipo abbassare le tasse e migliorare la qualità dei servizi, e più figa per tutti?
> Non ti vengo a dire che è una cosa facile, ci vuole duro lavoro, questo è chiaro.
> La guerra armata però richiede anch'esso duro lavoro, ed è una guerra molto più cruda... chiedilo a quelli che sono stati nelle trincee.
> La guerra armata è una cosa che ti fotte psicologicamente.
>
> Dopo che il PD ti ha tappettizzato alle elezioni puoi andare a berti una birra con tuo padre e rosikare su quanto il PD sia una merda, ma dopo una guerra armata rischi di non avere più nessun padre, nessuna casa, nessuna birra. Anche se vinci la guerra, alla fine potresti comunque ritrovarti senza nulla, con la tua famiglia sterminata dal fuoco nemico.
>
> È per questo che la guerra armata è una piaga e non è prevista nelle regole del gioco.
> La politica è una partita a schacchi, io faccio la mia mossa e tu fai la tua. Se ti mangio il cavallo, tu mi mangi la regina, non è che tiri fuori una pistola e mi uccidi.
Eh no! O è una guerra o è una partita. Il sistema non sta soltanto mangiando una pedina, sta distruggendo intere classi sociali.
Parte di quello di cui parlo è l'appropriazione in corso dei beni della classe media da parte dei grandi soggetti economici, usando i poveri come mezzo.
> > > L'alternativa sarebbe farsi la guerra come armi, ma questo sistema è stato usato per secoli e quello che si è ottenuto sono soltanto mari di sangue e distruzione di intere città.
> >
> > Esatto, è un sistema collaudato che funziona da secoli. La differenza è che oggi la tecnica permette a un singolo individuo incazzato di fare una strage, e l'istruzione di sapere come fare.
>
> È un sistema di merda, non funziona e un singolo individuo non può fare un cazzo di niente, perché appena ti metti a sparare, i tuoi nemici rispondono al fuoco.
>
> Tu rosiki perché il PD è un partito potente e farlo fuori è difficile? Perché, tu pensi che se invece il PD invece che un partito fosse un movimento armato con una potenza di fuoco analoga a quella che ha nei seggi, sarebbe facile farlo fuori?
>
> Saresti e il tuo fucile da gay contro un arsenale missilistico.
>
> Ci sarebbe lo stesso identico problema: gatto non potrebbe fare un cazzo perché non potrebbe reggere il confronto con l'arsenale bellico super tecnologico del PD... e alla fine dello scontro anziché berti una birra con tuo padre, verresti seppellito sotto terra insieme a tuo padre e alla birra che avresti bevuto con lui.
> È questo quello che vuoi?
> Io no.
>
> > > È questo quello che vuoi?
> >
> > Dipende se sono quello che con la democrazia vince o quello che sta perdendo...
>
> Questa è una cazzata, basta ragionarci: se con la democrazia perdi è perché non hai consensi, quindi che cazzo pensi di ottenere imbracciando un fucile?
> Giusto il tempo di fare 20 metri e sparare 10 colpi e vieni accoppato.
Tu hai capito che io parli di me, invece sto parlando di tutte le persone che non ne possono più del governo del PD e dei suoi omologhi in altre nazioni. Di una continua stretta che io percepisco come la morsa di una dittatura in progresso, altri possono percepire come una lesione di altri loro interessi. Al momento i soli a non essere colpiti mi pare siano i dipendenti statali, ma prima o poi toccherà anche a loro perché quando i grandi potentati controlleranno il 90% del ianeta non ci sarà più bisogno di tutti questi dipendenti statali.
> Anche nella guerra infatti è una questione di numeri e di bravura: per assicurarti la vittoria devi avere tanti soldati e tanta strategia.
> Se il PD ha più soldati di te, ti asfalta non appena spari un colpo.
>
> Visto che la guerra armata è anche più dura della guerra politica, perché invece che imparare a sparare non impari a fare quello che fanno i politici?
Perché sono quanrant'anni che vedo neutralizzare ogni partito di opposizione. Le opposizioni iniziano, quelle che non falliscono hanno qualche successo, poi si sgonfiano o vengono assimilate. Comunisti, ambientalisti, leghisti e indipendentisti vari, nazionalisti, da decenni fanno tutti la stessa fine. I padroni della democrazia sanno far funzionare la democrazia piuttosto bene, hanno imparato come usarla per i propri scopi ed esercitano questa loro abilità con maestria.
> Il peggio che ti può succedere è che non vinci le elezioni. Nella guerra armata ti può succedere molto peggio e la tua visione ingenua non ti permette di capire che le dinamiche belicche assomigliano molto a quelle politiche (vince chi ha più persone dalla sua parte e più soldi per pagare i soldati e la armi), con la differenza che la politica non ti uccide.
>
> > O non ci si fa la guerra. Personalmente chi mi fa la guerra con la politica, con l'economia, con la legge, non merita un trattamento diverso da chi mi sfonda il muro di casa con un carro armato.
>
> Cazzate, un carro armato che ti sfonda il muro ti può uccidere, la politica invece non ti uccide, al massimo ti fa rosikare.
La politica ti può impedire di lavorare, vedi Yoda, perché sei in una particolare categoria. Ovviamente non impedisce di lavorare a te personalmente, ma può creare un ambiente in cui a te è più difficile trovate lavoro rispetto a un altro. La politica può allo stesso modo impedirti di fare figli, mentre vedi che ad altri vengono date agevolazioni usando fondi pubblici, quindi anche tuoi.
> Penso che una persona che sta vivendo la guerra farebbe volentieri a cambio con te e i tuoi problemi esistenziali (rosikamenti di vario tipo).
Ripeto: non hai capito che sto parlando di intere categorie che non ne possono più del governo che si è stabilito dal 1995 circa, cambiando periodicamente nome ma restando nel complesso uguale. Ovvio che questo governo ad altre persone e categorie invece piace, e come ogni governo fa in modo di piacere a un numero di persone maggiore di quelli a cui dispiace, in modo che i secondi possano essere aggrediti e distrutti democraticamente. Avere la maggioranza dal 1995 non ti dà il diritto di neutralizzare, espellere e distruggere chi nella tua maggioranza non rientrano.
Però se una qualunque di queste categorie prendesse le armi penso che se quel giorno sono dell'umore giusto potrei unirmi a loro.
> > Ma PD e PDL si stanno già arrangiando (insieme al presidente della repubblica) per fregarli: a meno che non ottengano una maggioranza enorme mon andranno al governo (al posto loro finirà il solito "tecnico") e se ci andranno non riusciranno a governare (gli accordi internazionali permettono di governare solo come stabilito dagli accordi stessi).
>
> I 5stelle vengono fregati dalle coalizioni, in quanto essi per loro natura non possono coalizzarsi con nessuno.
> Va detto però che il PD con questa legge elettorale ha tagliato le gambe pure a sé stesso, perché anche il PD non poteva contare su una coalizione visto che la sinistra italiana è frammentata.
>
> Quello che ha fatto il PD con la legge elettorale è rischiare di consegnare la nazione al centro-destra, che è la forza politica che secondo le proiezioni ha più probabilità di raggiungere i numeri per governare.
>
> I 5stelle non hanno gradito la legge elettorale e li capisco, ma d'altra parte non è colpa del PD se i 5stelle non hanno i numeri per governare (cosa che in realtà nessuna forza politica sembrerebbe avere, nemmeno la colizione di centro-destra).
> Il PD e Forza Italia fanno propaganda contro i 5stelle e i 5stelle fanno propaganda contro PD e Forza Italia.
>
> Devi rispondere con le stesse armi che anche il tuo nemico utilizza.
In guerra rispondi con le armi che hai.
Per chiarire le idee, se per me il favore accordato all'immigrazione di massa è un modo per distruggermi, per distruggere l'essenza stessa di ciò che per me costituisce il mio paese (stiamo parlando sempre in senso impersonale) io mi sento oggetto di atti di guerra, non semplicemente soggetto a un'amministrazione contraria, e ha senso parlare di guerra, di traditori, eccetera.
> > No, quello che voglio non sono le squadre armate del centrosinistradestra, quel che voglo è veder farli fuori prima che facciano fuori me.
>
> Non hanno nessuna intenzione di farti fuori. Questo è ciò che succederebbe se tu imbracciassi un fucile.
>
> > La guerra non violenta è un lusso per chi possiede banche e controlla giornali e televisioni.
>
> Non è vero, basta avere un canale in youtube. Lambrenedetto docet. Lui non corre per le elezioni, ma se lo facesse secondo me riceverebbe molti voti.
In quale partito?
In qualsiasi partito esistente verrebbe neutralizzato. Gli darebbero un posto e uno stipendio, le strade continuerebbero ad essere piene di spazzatura e i tombini ad essere costruiti fuori livello.
Un suo partito creato ex novo prenderebbe motissimi voti.. forse arriverebbe addirittura al 2%.
> La sua notorietà se l'è costruita con i social, non con la televisione e gli unici soldi che gli occorrono sono quelli della videocamera.
> Scritto da:
> > Scritto da:
> > > Scritto da:
> > > > Mattia sveglia, oggi i politici di maggioranza non stanno semplicemente governando secondo le loro idee un paese che appartiene anche all'opposizione, mettono in pratica veri e propri atti di aggressione e distruzione dell'avversario
> > >
> > > Come aveva scritto Avve, la democrazia è solo un altro modo per farsi la guerra.
> >
> > Ma allora la guerra è guerra, non una partita, e fare una strage di rampolli del PD locale al campeggio su un'isola è un modo perfettamente valido di combattere.
>
> Il PD utilizza la violenza? No. Perciò non è affatto un modo valido di combattere quello di cui parli.
Se mi stai distruggendo con l'economia e la finanza, a colpi di leggi e carte bollate non mi frega un cazzo che non sia un filmato gore, io rispondo con armi a cui è più semplice l'accesso. E tu credi che il popolo abbia più facilmente accesso al controllo di banche o all'acquisto di un mitragliatore al mercato nero?
P.S. In tutto questo discorso "io" e "tu" vanno intesi in senso impersonale, se mai non si fosse capito. "Io" rappresenta quanti ne hanno piene le palle del PD(L) e di un modo di governare che dura almeno dal 1995, qualsiasi siano i motivi di questa opposizione, che possono essere simili ai miei o completamente diversi.
> La guerra al PD la devi fare con gli stessi mezzi NON VIOLENTI che utilizza anche lui.
In guerra ognuno usa i mezzi che ha.
> Non venire a dirmi che creare un partito non è possibile che fa opposizione al PD non è possibile: è possibile eccome, devi solo tirar fuori la paglia dal culo.
>
> Non è una questione di soldi, giornali e complotti vari... è solo questione di raccogliere consensi. Se il tuo partito dice delle cose che piacciono alla gente viene votato, altrimenti no.
Tipo abbassare le tasse e migliorare la qualità dei servizi, e più figa per tutti?
> Non ti vengo a dire che è una cosa facile, ci vuole duro lavoro, questo è chiaro.
> La guerra armata però richiede anch'esso duro lavoro, ed è una guerra molto più cruda... chiedilo a quelli che sono stati nelle trincee.
> La guerra armata è una cosa che ti fotte psicologicamente.
>
> Dopo che il PD ti ha tappettizzato alle elezioni puoi andare a berti una birra con tuo padre e rosikare su quanto il PD sia una merda, ma dopo una guerra armata rischi di non avere più nessun padre, nessuna casa, nessuna birra. Anche se vinci la guerra, alla fine potresti comunque ritrovarti senza nulla, con la tua famiglia sterminata dal fuoco nemico.
>
> È per questo che la guerra armata è una piaga e non è prevista nelle regole del gioco.
> La politica è una partita a schacchi, io faccio la mia mossa e tu fai la tua. Se ti mangio il cavallo, tu mi mangi la regina, non è che tiri fuori una pistola e mi uccidi.
Eh no! O è una guerra o è una partita. Il sistema non sta soltanto mangiando una pedina, sta distruggendo intere classi sociali.
Parte di quello di cui parlo è l'appropriazione in corso dei beni della classe media da parte dei grandi soggetti economici, usando i poveri come mezzo.
> > > L'alternativa sarebbe farsi la guerra come armi, ma questo sistema è stato usato per secoli e quello che si è ottenuto sono soltanto mari di sangue e distruzione di intere città.
> >
> > Esatto, è un sistema collaudato che funziona da secoli. La differenza è che oggi la tecnica permette a un singolo individuo incazzato di fare una strage, e l'istruzione di sapere come fare.
>
> È un sistema di merda, non funziona e un singolo individuo non può fare un cazzo di niente, perché appena ti metti a sparare, i tuoi nemici rispondono al fuoco.
>
> Tu rosiki perché il PD è un partito potente e farlo fuori è difficile? Perché, tu pensi che se invece il PD invece che un partito fosse un movimento armato con una potenza di fuoco analoga a quella che ha nei seggi, sarebbe facile farlo fuori?
>
> Saresti e il tuo fucile da gay contro un arsenale missilistico.
>
> Ci sarebbe lo stesso identico problema: gatto non potrebbe fare un cazzo perché non potrebbe reggere il confronto con l'arsenale bellico super tecnologico del PD... e alla fine dello scontro anziché berti una birra con tuo padre, verresti seppellito sotto terra insieme a tuo padre e alla birra che avresti bevuto con lui.
> È questo quello che vuoi?
> Io no.
>
> > > È questo quello che vuoi?
> >
> > Dipende se sono quello che con la democrazia vince o quello che sta perdendo...
>
> Questa è una cazzata, basta ragionarci: se con la democrazia perdi è perché non hai consensi, quindi che cazzo pensi di ottenere imbracciando un fucile?
> Giusto il tempo di fare 20 metri e sparare 10 colpi e vieni accoppato.
Tu hai capito che io parli di me, invece sto parlando di tutte le persone che non ne possono più del governo del PD e dei suoi omologhi in altre nazioni. Di una continua stretta che io percepisco come la morsa di una dittatura in progresso, altri possono percepire come una lesione di altri loro interessi. Al momento i soli a non essere colpiti mi pare siano i dipendenti statali, ma prima o poi toccherà anche a loro perché quando i grandi potentati controlleranno il 90% del ianeta non ci sarà più bisogno di tutti questi dipendenti statali.
> Anche nella guerra infatti è una questione di numeri e di bravura: per assicurarti la vittoria devi avere tanti soldati e tanta strategia.
> Se il PD ha più soldati di te, ti asfalta non appena spari un colpo.
>
> Visto che la guerra armata è anche più dura della guerra politica, perché invece che imparare a sparare non impari a fare quello che fanno i politici?
Perché sono quanrant'anni che vedo neutralizzare ogni partito di opposizione. Le opposizioni iniziano, quelle che non falliscono hanno qualche successo, poi si sgonfiano o vengono assimilate. Comunisti, ambientalisti, leghisti e indipendentisti vari, nazionalisti, da decenni fanno tutti la stessa fine. I padroni della democrazia sanno far funzionare la democrazia piuttosto bene, hanno imparato come usarla per i propri scopi ed esercitano questa loro abilità con maestria.
> Il peggio che ti può succedere è che non vinci le elezioni. Nella guerra armata ti può succedere molto peggio e la tua visione ingenua non ti permette di capire che le dinamiche belicche assomigliano molto a quelle politiche (vince chi ha più persone dalla sua parte e più soldi per pagare i soldati e la armi), con la differenza che la politica non ti uccide.
>
> > O non ci si fa la guerra. Personalmente chi mi fa la guerra con la politica, con l'economia, con la legge, non merita un trattamento diverso da chi mi sfonda il muro di casa con un carro armato.
>
> Cazzate, un carro armato che ti sfonda il muro ti può uccidere, la politica invece non ti uccide, al massimo ti fa rosikare.
La politica ti può impedire di lavorare, vedi Yoda, perché sei in una particolare categoria. Ovviamente non impedisce di lavorare a te personalmente, ma può creare un ambiente in cui a te è più difficile trovate lavoro rispetto a un altro. La politica può allo stesso modo impedirti di fare figli, mentre vedi che ad altri vengono date agevolazioni usando fondi pubblici, quindi anche tuoi.
> Penso che una persona che sta vivendo la guerra farebbe volentieri a cambio con te e i tuoi problemi esistenziali (rosikamenti di vario tipo).

Ripeto: non hai capito che sto parlando di intere categorie che non ne possono più del governo che si è stabilito dal 1995 circa, cambiando periodicamente nome ma restando nel complesso uguale. Ovvio che questo governo ad altre persone e categorie invece piace, e come ogni governo fa in modo di piacere a un numero di persone maggiore di quelli a cui dispiace, in modo che i secondi possano essere aggrediti e distrutti democraticamente. Avere la maggioranza dal 1995 non ti dà il diritto di neutralizzare, espellere e distruggere chi nella tua maggioranza non rientrano.
Però se una qualunque di queste categorie prendesse le armi penso che se quel giorno sono dell'umore giusto potrei unirmi a loro.
> > Ma PD e PDL si stanno già arrangiando (insieme al presidente della repubblica) per fregarli: a meno che non ottengano una maggioranza enorme mon andranno al governo (al posto loro finirà il solito "tecnico") e se ci andranno non riusciranno a governare (gli accordi internazionali permettono di governare solo come stabilito dagli accordi stessi).
>
> I 5stelle vengono fregati dalle coalizioni, in quanto essi per loro natura non possono coalizzarsi con nessuno.
> Va detto però che il PD con questa legge elettorale ha tagliato le gambe pure a sé stesso, perché anche il PD non poteva contare su una coalizione visto che la sinistra italiana è frammentata.
>
> Quello che ha fatto il PD con la legge elettorale è rischiare di consegnare la nazione al centro-destra, che è la forza politica che secondo le proiezioni ha più probabilità di raggiungere i numeri per governare.
>
> I 5stelle non hanno gradito la legge elettorale e li capisco, ma d'altra parte non è colpa del PD se i 5stelle non hanno i numeri per governare (cosa che in realtà nessuna forza politica sembrerebbe avere, nemmeno la colizione di centro-destra).
> Il PD e Forza Italia fanno propaganda contro i 5stelle e i 5stelle fanno propaganda contro PD e Forza Italia.
>
> Devi rispondere con le stesse armi che anche il tuo nemico utilizza.
In guerra rispondi con le armi che hai.
Per chiarire le idee, se per me il favore accordato all'immigrazione di massa è un modo per distruggermi, per distruggere l'essenza stessa di ciò che per me costituisce il mio paese (stiamo parlando sempre in senso impersonale) io mi sento oggetto di atti di guerra, non semplicemente soggetto a un'amministrazione contraria, e ha senso parlare di guerra, di traditori, eccetera.
> > No, quello che voglio non sono le squadre armate del centrosinistradestra, quel che voglo è veder farli fuori prima che facciano fuori me.
>
> Non hanno nessuna intenzione di farti fuori. Questo è ciò che succederebbe se tu imbracciassi un fucile.
>
> > La guerra non violenta è un lusso per chi possiede banche e controlla giornali e televisioni.
>
> Non è vero, basta avere un canale in youtube. Lambrenedetto docet. Lui non corre per le elezioni, ma se lo facesse secondo me riceverebbe molti voti.
In quale partito?
In qualsiasi partito esistente verrebbe neutralizzato. Gli darebbero un posto e uno stipendio, le strade continuerebbero ad essere piene di spazzatura e i tombini ad essere costruiti fuori livello.
Un suo partito creato ex novo prenderebbe motissimi voti.. forse arriverebbe addirittura al 2%.
> La sua notorietà se l'è costruita con i social, non con la televisione e gli unici soldi che gli occorrono sono quelli della videocamera.
Scritto da
Nazi Heidi
Wakkus Horribilis
il 2018-02-25 22:23:37.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:23:37.0
Trollate totali: 4162
Scritto da:
> Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
**Modificato dall'autore il 25.02.2018 22:25**
> Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta
Lincoln era un repubblicano conservatore...
**Modificato dall'autore il 25.02.2018 22:25**
Nobody is more inferior than those who insist on being equal. - Nietzsche
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 22:01:29.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:01:29.0
Scritto da: Nazi Heidi
> Scritto da:
> > Non ho detto che erano solo i liberali a essere contrari alla schiavitù
>
> Quello che ti ho detto io invece è che la fine della schiavitù non la si deve ai liberali... la schiavitù era praticata solo da una piccola porzione della popolazione e non piaceva a molti, inclusi molti sudisti. Se vogliamo andare a vedere perché la schiavitù è stata abolita probabilmente devi far risalire la cosa al cristianesimo... Lincoln infatti da giovane frequentava la chiesa battista che predicava la fine della schiavitù.
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_... 
>
> Lincoln was born on February 12, 1809, in Hardin County, Kentucky[7] (now LaRue County). His family attended a Separate Baptists church, which had strict moral standards and opposed alcohol, dancing, and slavery.[8] The family moved north across the Ohio River to free (i.e., non-slave) territory and made a new start in then Perry County; now Spencer County. Lincoln later noted that this move was "partly on account of slavery" but mainly due to land title difficulties.[9] As a young man, he settled in the free state of Illinois.
>
> Da questa citazione si capiscono 2 cose:
> 1) Lincoln voleva la fine della schiavitù perché era nato e cresciuto in un ambiente in cui la schiavitù era condannata dalla sua religione. Le sue idee anti-schiaviste non si devono quindi all'ideologia liberale, ma semplicemente al fatto di ritenere la schiavitù sbagliata per motivi religiosi e di tradizione della sua famiglia/società
Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta... quello che conta è osservare che per l'appunto Lincoln aveva un pensiero da liberale.
I percorsi che ti posso portare al liberalismo sono tanti e può darsi che Lincoln ci sia anche arrivato attraverso un percorso religioso.
Poi io non dico che il liberalismo è la sola ideologia a promuovere l'abolizione della schiavitù, ma è stato ANCHE il liberalismo.
> Scritto da:
> > Non ho detto che erano solo i liberali a essere contrari alla schiavitù
>
> Quello che ti ho detto io invece è che la fine della schiavitù non la si deve ai liberali... la schiavitù era praticata solo da una piccola porzione della popolazione e non piaceva a molti, inclusi molti sudisti. Se vogliamo andare a vedere perché la schiavitù è stata abolita probabilmente devi far risalire la cosa al cristianesimo... Lincoln infatti da giovane frequentava la chiesa battista che predicava la fine della schiavitù.
>
>

>
> Lincoln was born on February 12, 1809, in Hardin County, Kentucky[7] (now LaRue County). His family attended a Separate Baptists church, which had strict moral standards and opposed alcohol, dancing, and slavery.[8] The family moved north across the Ohio River to free (i.e., non-slave) territory and made a new start in then Perry County; now Spencer County. Lincoln later noted that this move was "partly on account of slavery" but mainly due to land title difficulties.[9] As a young man, he settled in the free state of Illinois.
>
> Da questa citazione si capiscono 2 cose:
> 1) Lincoln voleva la fine della schiavitù perché era nato e cresciuto in un ambiente in cui la schiavitù era condannata dalla sua religione. Le sue idee anti-schiaviste non si devono quindi all'ideologia liberale, ma semplicemente al fatto di ritenere la schiavitù sbagliata per motivi religiosi e di tradizione della sua famiglia/società
Il motivo per cui Lincoln era liberale non conta... quello che conta è osservare che per l'appunto Lincoln aveva un pensiero da liberale.
I percorsi che ti posso portare al liberalismo sono tanti e può darsi che Lincoln ci sia anche arrivato attraverso un percorso religioso.
Poi io non dico che il liberalismo è la sola ideologia a promuovere l'abolizione della schiavitù, ma è stato ANCHE il liberalismo.
Proc di Catania
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 22:00:33.0 alle 2018-02-25 22:00:33.0
Vieni anche tu a fare autostop in merio oriente!!!
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https://imgoat.com/uploads/cdd60ea004/183004.png
Non lasciarti scappare questa occasione più unica che rara di conoscere nuove culture e la gentilezza dei taxisti che provano a stuprarti ma a metà opera se ne pentono e ti lasciano in mezzo ad un bosco!
Proc di Catania
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 21:58:50.0 alle 2018-02-25 21:58:50.0
Children have been shown to have reasoning capabilities similar to adults.
Waber, D.P., et al. (2007). "The NIH MRI Study of Normal Brain Development: Performance of a Population Based Sample of Healthy Children Aged 6 to 18 Years on a Neuropsychological Battery," Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, 13(5), 729-746.
"Perhaps most intriguing are the age-related trajectories for raw score performance. For most tasks, proficiency improved dramatically between 6 and 10 years of age, leveling off during early adolescence (approximately 10 to 12 years of age), suggesting that for many neurocognitive tasks, children approach adult levels of performance at that age. For a few measures, scores increased linearly throughout the age range. These were tasks that assessed basic information processing, such as Coding, Digit Span, and Spatial Span. Still others were associated with a non-linear component during adolescence. Some showed a flattening of the curve followed by another period of acceleration, suggesting another spurt in mid-adolescence. Verbal learning actually reversed direction with performance declining in later adolescence."
Haidt, J. (2001). "The emotional dog and its rational tail: A social intuitionist approach to moral judgment," Psychological Review, 108, 814-834.
"Turiel (1983) has shown that young children do not believe [that actions are wrong just because they are punished]. They say that harmful acts, such as hitting and pulling hair, are wrong whether they are punished or not. They even say that such acts would be wrong if adults ordered them to be done."
Adler, N.E., & Matthews, K. (1994). "Why do some people get sick and some stay well?," Annual Review of Psychology, 45, 229-259.
"However, empirical tests show that adolescents are no less rational than adults. Applications of rational models to adolescent decision-making show that adolescents are consistent in their reasoning and behavior after the salient set of beliefs is assessed (Adler et al 1990). Quadrel et al (1993) demonstrated that adolescents are no more biased in their estimates of vulnerability to adverse health outcomes than are their parents."
Weithorn, L. A. & Campbell, S. B. (1982). "The competency of children and adolescents to make informed treatment decisions," Child Development, 53(6), 1589-1598.
"In general, minors aged fourteen were found to demonstrate a level of competence equivalent to that of adults. […] The ages of eighteen or twenty-one as the "cutoffs" below which individuals are presumed to be incompetent to make determinations about their own welfare do not reflect the psychological capabilities of most adolescents."
Waber, D.P., et al. (2007). "The NIH MRI Study of Normal Brain Development: Performance of a Population Based Sample of Healthy Children Aged 6 to 18 Years on a Neuropsychological Battery," Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, 13(5), 729-746.
"Perhaps most intriguing are the age-related trajectories for raw score performance. For most tasks, proficiency improved dramatically between 6 and 10 years of age, leveling off during early adolescence (approximately 10 to 12 years of age), suggesting that for many neurocognitive tasks, children approach adult levels of performance at that age. For a few measures, scores increased linearly throughout the age range. These were tasks that assessed basic information processing, such as Coding, Digit Span, and Spatial Span. Still others were associated with a non-linear component during adolescence. Some showed a flattening of the curve followed by another period of acceleration, suggesting another spurt in mid-adolescence. Verbal learning actually reversed direction with performance declining in later adolescence."
Haidt, J. (2001). "The emotional dog and its rational tail: A social intuitionist approach to moral judgment," Psychological Review, 108, 814-834.
"Turiel (1983) has shown that young children do not believe [that actions are wrong just because they are punished]. They say that harmful acts, such as hitting and pulling hair, are wrong whether they are punished or not. They even say that such acts would be wrong if adults ordered them to be done."
Adler, N.E., & Matthews, K. (1994). "Why do some people get sick and some stay well?," Annual Review of Psychology, 45, 229-259.
"However, empirical tests show that adolescents are no less rational than adults. Applications of rational models to adolescent decision-making show that adolescents are consistent in their reasoning and behavior after the salient set of beliefs is assessed (Adler et al 1990). Quadrel et al (1993) demonstrated that adolescents are no more biased in their estimates of vulnerability to adverse health outcomes than are their parents."
Weithorn, L. A. & Campbell, S. B. (1982). "The competency of children and adolescents to make informed treatment decisions," Child Development, 53(6), 1589-1598.
"In general, minors aged fourteen were found to demonstrate a level of competence equivalent to that of adults. […] The ages of eighteen or twenty-one as the "cutoffs" below which individuals are presumed to be incompetent to make determinations about their own welfare do not reflect the psychological capabilities of most adolescents."
Proc di Catania
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 21:58:14.0 alle 2018-02-25 21:58:14.0
Higgins, D. J., & McCabe, M. P. (2003). "Maltreatment and Family Dysfunction in Childhood and the Subsequent Adjustment of Children and Adults," Journal of Family Violence, 18(2)
"Although child maltreatment scores predicted psychopathology, childhood family variables were better predictors of adjustment. [..] Standard multiple regression analyses were used to assess the contribution of scores on the five maltreatment scales to the adjustment measures of TSC-40 Total score and Self-derogation (see Table IV). Scores on these five maltreatment scales significantly predicted adults' reports of trauma symptoms, F(5, 132) = 15,36, p < .001, with psychological maltreatment being the only statistically significant unique predictor (sr2 = .05). Maltreatment scores also significantly predicted self-depreciation, F(5, 132) = 7.14, p < .001, with neglect being the only statistically significant unique predictor (sr2 = .03). Standard multiple regression analyses were used to assess the contribution of gender and scores on family background variables (closeness and quality of childhood relationships, physical and verbal affection, parental divorce, family adaptability, family cohesion, parental sexual punitiveness, quality of interparental relationship, traditionality of mother, traditionality of father) to the adjustment measures of TSC-40 Total score and Self-derogation (see Table IV). The family background variables significantly predicted trauma symptomology F(10, 127) = 4.44, p < .001; and self-depreciation, F(10, 127) = 3:87; p < .001. Family adaptability and quality of childhood relationships were unique predictors of both trauma symptomatology (sr2 = .05 and .05 respectively) and self-depreciation (sr2 = .04 and .03 respectively)."
Friedrich, W., Beilke, R., and Urquiza, A. (1987). "Children from sexually abusive families: A behavioral comparison," Journal of Interpersonal Violence , 2, 391-402.
"Friedrich et al. (1987) used mulitvariate analysis to explore the effects of abuse and family variables simultaneously on symptomatology. This study found that abuse severity was not a significant predictor of internalizing symptoms when controlling for family variables; instead, internalizing symptoms were predicted by family conflict, family cohesion, and time since disclosure. On the other hand, abuse severity and family variables both contributed significant variance in predicting externalizing symptoms and sexualized behaviors." (as cited by Spaccarelli and Fuchs, 1997, "Variability in Symptom Expression among Sexually Abused Girls: Developing Multivariate Models")
Harter, S., Alexander, P.C., and Neimeyer, R.A. (1988). "Long-term effects of incestuous child abuse in college women: Social adjustment, social cognition, and family characteristics," Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 56:5–8.
"Additional analyses suggested that family characteristics and increased perceptions of social isolation were more predictive of social maladjustment than abuse per se."
"Although child maltreatment scores predicted psychopathology, childhood family variables were better predictors of adjustment. [..] Standard multiple regression analyses were used to assess the contribution of scores on the five maltreatment scales to the adjustment measures of TSC-40 Total score and Self-derogation (see Table IV). Scores on these five maltreatment scales significantly predicted adults' reports of trauma symptoms, F(5, 132) = 15,36, p < .001, with psychological maltreatment being the only statistically significant unique predictor (sr2 = .05). Maltreatment scores also significantly predicted self-depreciation, F(5, 132) = 7.14, p < .001, with neglect being the only statistically significant unique predictor (sr2 = .03). Standard multiple regression analyses were used to assess the contribution of gender and scores on family background variables (closeness and quality of childhood relationships, physical and verbal affection, parental divorce, family adaptability, family cohesion, parental sexual punitiveness, quality of interparental relationship, traditionality of mother, traditionality of father) to the adjustment measures of TSC-40 Total score and Self-derogation (see Table IV). The family background variables significantly predicted trauma symptomology F(10, 127) = 4.44, p < .001; and self-depreciation, F(10, 127) = 3:87; p < .001. Family adaptability and quality of childhood relationships were unique predictors of both trauma symptomatology (sr2 = .05 and .05 respectively) and self-depreciation (sr2 = .04 and .03 respectively)."
Friedrich, W., Beilke, R., and Urquiza, A. (1987). "Children from sexually abusive families: A behavioral comparison," Journal of Interpersonal Violence , 2, 391-402.
"Friedrich et al. (1987) used mulitvariate analysis to explore the effects of abuse and family variables simultaneously on symptomatology. This study found that abuse severity was not a significant predictor of internalizing symptoms when controlling for family variables; instead, internalizing symptoms were predicted by family conflict, family cohesion, and time since disclosure. On the other hand, abuse severity and family variables both contributed significant variance in predicting externalizing symptoms and sexualized behaviors." (as cited by Spaccarelli and Fuchs, 1997, "Variability in Symptom Expression among Sexually Abused Girls: Developing Multivariate Models")
Harter, S., Alexander, P.C., and Neimeyer, R.A. (1988). "Long-term effects of incestuous child abuse in college women: Social adjustment, social cognition, and family characteristics," Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 56:5–8.
"Additional analyses suggested that family characteristics and increased perceptions of social isolation were more predictive of social maladjustment than abuse per se."
Proc di Catania
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 21:57:42.0 alle 2018-02-25 21:57:42.0
Family environment is more predictive of harm than child sexual abuse.
Nash, M.R., Hulsey, T.L., Sexton, M.C., et al. (1993). "Long-term sequelae of childhood sexual abuse: Perceived family environment, psychopathology, and dissociation," Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 61:1–8.
"Our first hypothesis, that sexual abuse itself is associated with broad-spectrum, general psychological impairment, independent of the effects of perceived family environment, was not supported by the findings. Perceived family environment appears to be an important mediating variable in determining general level of adult psychological distress, so important that we found no significant residual effect for abuse per se on the extent of general psychological impairment. For some victims, sexual abuse may be a signal variable that the home environment is profoundly and broadly pathogenic. Subsequent adult impairment may be an effect not only of abuse but of the context in which it was embedded."
Fromuth, M.D. (1986). "The relationship of childhood sexual abuse with later psychological and sexual adjustment in a sample of college women," Child Abuse & Neglect, 10:5-15
"To further explore the nature of the significant relationships found between the SCL-90 variables and sexual abuse, multiple correlations were performed predicting the SCL-90 variables from the presence of childhood sexual abuse and the Parental Support Scale. As can be seen by examining Table 1, the Parental Support Scale was a better predictor of the SCL-90 variables than was the history of childhood sexual abuse. Indeed, semipartial correlations revealed that, except for the Phobic Anxiety Scale (see Table 2), a history of sexual abuse did not significantly increase the prediction of the SCL-90 variables over and above that predicted by the Parental Support Scale alone. This suggests that for all but the Phobic Anxiety Scale, the significant relationships found between childhood sexual abuse and the SCL-90 variables were due to the confounding of the sexual abuse with the family background."
Nash, M.R., Hulsey, T.L., Sexton, M.C., et al. (1993). "Long-term sequelae of childhood sexual abuse: Perceived family environment, psychopathology, and dissociation," Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 61:1–8.
"Our first hypothesis, that sexual abuse itself is associated with broad-spectrum, general psychological impairment, independent of the effects of perceived family environment, was not supported by the findings. Perceived family environment appears to be an important mediating variable in determining general level of adult psychological distress, so important that we found no significant residual effect for abuse per se on the extent of general psychological impairment. For some victims, sexual abuse may be a signal variable that the home environment is profoundly and broadly pathogenic. Subsequent adult impairment may be an effect not only of abuse but of the context in which it was embedded."
Fromuth, M.D. (1986). "The relationship of childhood sexual abuse with later psychological and sexual adjustment in a sample of college women," Child Abuse & Neglect, 10:5-15
"To further explore the nature of the significant relationships found between the SCL-90 variables and sexual abuse, multiple correlations were performed predicting the SCL-90 variables from the presence of childhood sexual abuse and the Parental Support Scale. As can be seen by examining Table 1, the Parental Support Scale was a better predictor of the SCL-90 variables than was the history of childhood sexual abuse. Indeed, semipartial correlations revealed that, except for the Phobic Anxiety Scale (see Table 2), a history of sexual abuse did not significantly increase the prediction of the SCL-90 variables over and above that predicted by the Parental Support Scale alone. This suggests that for all but the Phobic Anxiety Scale, the significant relationships found between childhood sexual abuse and the SCL-90 variables were due to the confounding of the sexual abuse with the family background."
Proc di Catania
Scritto da
Non Autenticato
il 2018-02-25 21:57:16.0 alle 2018-02-25 21:57:16.0
Studies have shown an increase in good mental health with early childhood sexual experiences.
Harden, K., Mendle, J., Hill, J., Turkheimer, E., and Emery, R. (2008). "Rethinking timing of first sex and delinquency[1]," Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 37(4), 373-385.
"The relation between timing of first sex and later delinquency was examined using a genetically informed sample of 534 same-sex twin pairs from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, who were assessed at three time points over a 7-year interval. […] After controlling for these genetic and environmental confounds using a quasi-experimental design, earlier age at first sex predicted lower levels of delinquency in early adulthood. […]
Although the current results are contrary to embedded assumptions, they are actually consistent with previous research. Specifically, three quasi-experimental (longitudinal or behavior genetic) studies that examined whether timing of first sex influences subsequent psychosocial functioning, controlling for psychological differences that precede sexual initiation, have all failed to find adverse effects for sexual timing. […]
The current study suggests that there may be positive functions for early initiation of sexual activity, in that the co-twin with earlier age at first sex demonstrated lower levels of delinquency in early adulthood. This result echoes a small but important body of previous research. In one of the first pieces of sex research, Kinsey et al. (1953) concluded that premarital sexual activity resulted in minimal "psychological disturbance" and may result in healthier non-romantic relationships and greater happiness later in life. More recent research has indicated that early sexual timing is associated with popularity (Prinstein et al. 2003); high self-esteem (for a review see Goodson et al. 2006; Paul et al. 2000); positive self-concept (Pedersen et al. 2003); high levels of body pride (Lammers et al. 2000), and increasing closeness to the same-sex best friend (Billy et al. 1988). […] In the domain of adult sexual functioning, earlier age at first sex was found to predict greater coital orgasmic capacity in adult women (Raboch and Bartak 1983) and to discriminate sexually functional versus non-functional older men (age 64 years; Vallery-Masson et al. 1981). Women reporting an earlier age at first sex demonstrate less reactivity and faster recovery (as measured by cortical response) in response to stress (Brody 2002)."
Arreola, Sonya; Neilands, Torsten; Pollack, Lance; Paul, Jay; Catania, Joseph (2008). "Childhood Sexual Experiences and Adult Health Sequelae Among Gay and Bisexual Men: Defining Childhood Sexual Abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 45(3), pp. 246 - 252.
"Those who had forced sex were significantly more likely to be depressed or have suicidal ideation than those who had consensual sex and those who had no sex before age 18. There was no difference between the consensual sex group and those who had no sex before age 18. The level of well-being was significantly higher for the consensual group compared with the no sex before 18 group and the forced sex group. The latter two groups did not differ from each other on well-being. […] Interestingly, the forced sex group and the no sex group were statistically indistinguishable in their level of well-being, while the consensual sex group was significantly more likely to have a higher level of well-being than either of the other two groups. This suggests that consensual sex before 18 years of age may have a positive effect, perhaps as an adaptive milestone of adolescent sexual development." This study was inclusive of both minor-minor relations and adult-minor relations; no distinctions were made.
Bauserman, Robert, and Davis, Clive (1996). "Perceptions of Early Sexual Experiences and Adult Sexual Adjustment," International Journal of Sexual Health, 8(3), 37-59.
"Results supported the hypotheses that positively evaluated early sexual experiences would be associated with greater erotophilia, more acceptance of various sexual behaviors for self and others, and greater sexual satisfaction."
Harden, K., Mendle, J., Hill, J., Turkheimer, E., and Emery, R. (2008). "Rethinking timing of first sex and delinquency[1]," Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 37(4), 373-385.
"The relation between timing of first sex and later delinquency was examined using a genetically informed sample of 534 same-sex twin pairs from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, who were assessed at three time points over a 7-year interval. […] After controlling for these genetic and environmental confounds using a quasi-experimental design, earlier age at first sex predicted lower levels of delinquency in early adulthood. […]
Although the current results are contrary to embedded assumptions, they are actually consistent with previous research. Specifically, three quasi-experimental (longitudinal or behavior genetic) studies that examined whether timing of first sex influences subsequent psychosocial functioning, controlling for psychological differences that precede sexual initiation, have all failed to find adverse effects for sexual timing. […]
The current study suggests that there may be positive functions for early initiation of sexual activity, in that the co-twin with earlier age at first sex demonstrated lower levels of delinquency in early adulthood. This result echoes a small but important body of previous research. In one of the first pieces of sex research, Kinsey et al. (1953) concluded that premarital sexual activity resulted in minimal "psychological disturbance" and may result in healthier non-romantic relationships and greater happiness later in life. More recent research has indicated that early sexual timing is associated with popularity (Prinstein et al. 2003); high self-esteem (for a review see Goodson et al. 2006; Paul et al. 2000); positive self-concept (Pedersen et al. 2003); high levels of body pride (Lammers et al. 2000), and increasing closeness to the same-sex best friend (Billy et al. 1988). […] In the domain of adult sexual functioning, earlier age at first sex was found to predict greater coital orgasmic capacity in adult women (Raboch and Bartak 1983) and to discriminate sexually functional versus non-functional older men (age 64 years; Vallery-Masson et al. 1981). Women reporting an earlier age at first sex demonstrate less reactivity and faster recovery (as measured by cortical response) in response to stress (Brody 2002)."
Arreola, Sonya; Neilands, Torsten; Pollack, Lance; Paul, Jay; Catania, Joseph (2008). "Childhood Sexual Experiences and Adult Health Sequelae Among Gay and Bisexual Men: Defining Childhood Sexual Abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 45(3), pp. 246 - 252.
"Those who had forced sex were significantly more likely to be depressed or have suicidal ideation than those who had consensual sex and those who had no sex before age 18. There was no difference between the consensual sex group and those who had no sex before age 18. The level of well-being was significantly higher for the consensual group compared with the no sex before 18 group and the forced sex group. The latter two groups did not differ from each other on well-being. […] Interestingly, the forced sex group and the no sex group were statistically indistinguishable in their level of well-being, while the consensual sex group was significantly more likely to have a higher level of well-being than either of the other two groups. This suggests that consensual sex before 18 years of age may have a positive effect, perhaps as an adaptive milestone of adolescent sexual development." This study was inclusive of both minor-minor relations and adult-minor relations; no distinctions were made.
Bauserman, Robert, and Davis, Clive (1996). "Perceptions of Early Sexual Experiences and Adult Sexual Adjustment," International Journal of Sexual Health, 8(3), 37-59.
"Results supported the hypotheses that positively evaluated early sexual experiences would be associated with greater erotophilia, more acceptance of various sexual behaviors for self and others, and greater sexual satisfaction."
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Malón, Agustín (2009). "Onanism and Child Sexual Abuse: A Comparative Study of Two Hypotheses ," Archives of Sexual Behavior. In press.
This article agrees with the above analysis of Finkelhor's model: "Finkelhor and Browne (1985) hypothesized four “traumatogenic dynamics”: traumatic sexualization, deceit, defenselessness, and stigmatization, and claimed these explained the traumatic specificity of CSA, something that is different from other otherwise equally severe trauma. But even a cursory examination of these shows they are found in other than CSA experiences, all are not always present, nor are they necessarily intrinsic to the child’s experience; they are, in fact, largely extrinsic societal artifacts."
Plummer, Ken (1981). "The Paedophile's Progress: A View from Below," in Brian Taylor (ed.), Perspectives on Paedophilia, p. 227. London: Batsford.
"Studies point to the experience being without trauma and frequently mutually pleasurable … unless, and this is an important proviso, it is 'discovered' by the family or the community. When this happens, it appears that the child can become shocked by the engulfing anger and outrage of the adult."
Henry, J. (1997). "System intervention trauma to child sexual abuse victims following disclosure," Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 12(4), 499-512.
"Results indicated that higher trauma scores, as measured by the Trauma Symptom Checklist, were related to an increased number of interviews, even when other aspects of the abuse such as seriousness were controlled for." (As cited in Investigation & Prosecution in Child Sexual Abuse)
Berliner, L., & Conte, J. R. (1995). "The effects of disclosure and intervention on sexually abused children," Child Abuse and Neglect, 19(3), 371-384.
"Having contact with a greater number of professionals following disclosure was related to greater negative impact of the abuse." (As cited in Investigation & Prosecution in Child Sexual Abuse)
Sandfort, T. (1987). Boys on their contacts with men: A study of sexually expressed friendships, New York: Global Academic Publishers, 1987.
"Great stress is placed in the literature upon the reaction of the child's environment if it comes to light that he has had sex with an adult. According to Weeks (1976) parental response is the single most important factor in determining what effect this will all have upon the child (See also Zeegers 1968, Van der Kwast 1975). Also if the discovery results in a court case this can turn the sexual contact into a negative experience." (Chapter 3)
This article agrees with the above analysis of Finkelhor's model: "Finkelhor and Browne (1985) hypothesized four “traumatogenic dynamics”: traumatic sexualization, deceit, defenselessness, and stigmatization, and claimed these explained the traumatic specificity of CSA, something that is different from other otherwise equally severe trauma. But even a cursory examination of these shows they are found in other than CSA experiences, all are not always present, nor are they necessarily intrinsic to the child’s experience; they are, in fact, largely extrinsic societal artifacts."
Plummer, Ken (1981). "The Paedophile's Progress: A View from Below," in Brian Taylor (ed.), Perspectives on Paedophilia, p. 227. London: Batsford.
"Studies point to the experience being without trauma and frequently mutually pleasurable … unless, and this is an important proviso, it is 'discovered' by the family or the community. When this happens, it appears that the child can become shocked by the engulfing anger and outrage of the adult."
Henry, J. (1997). "System intervention trauma to child sexual abuse victims following disclosure," Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 12(4), 499-512.
"Results indicated that higher trauma scores, as measured by the Trauma Symptom Checklist, were related to an increased number of interviews, even when other aspects of the abuse such as seriousness were controlled for." (As cited in Investigation & Prosecution in Child Sexual Abuse)
Berliner, L., & Conte, J. R. (1995). "The effects of disclosure and intervention on sexually abused children," Child Abuse and Neglect, 19(3), 371-384.
"Having contact with a greater number of professionals following disclosure was related to greater negative impact of the abuse." (As cited in Investigation & Prosecution in Child Sexual Abuse)
Sandfort, T. (1987). Boys on their contacts with men: A study of sexually expressed friendships, New York: Global Academic Publishers, 1987.
"Great stress is placed in the literature upon the reaction of the child's environment if it comes to light that he has had sex with an adult. According to Weeks (1976) parental response is the single most important factor in determining what effect this will all have upon the child (See also Zeegers 1968, Van der Kwast 1975). Also if the discovery results in a court case this can turn the sexual contact into a negative experience." (Chapter 3)
Scritto da: dada216
> Scritto da:
> > Scritto da: dada216
> > > ad ogni modo sono metodi antichi, di quando il nostro rapporto con ciò che "fa schifo" era molto diverso.
> > >
> > > Ecco associare queste cose al fatto che "i Negri fanno schifo " è un operazione superficiale.
> >
> > Quotissimo... e infatti i poveri (di tutti i colori) per sopravvivere fanno tante cose che fanno schifo.
> >
> > Un mio amico per esempio mi raccontava dei senzatetto a Zagabria che si bevono l'urina.
> >
> > Zagabria, non Africa.
> >
> > Io non so se il metodo del cow blowing funzioni oppure no, ma se funziona è comprensibile che i poveri lo usino. Fa schifo, ma forse hanno poca scelta.
> >
> >
>
> Lo stesso identico concetto si applica anche a noi.
>
> Cose che facciamo che fanno schifo (hanno ragione) ai cinesi:
>
> - dita in bocca ed in generale la cross contaminati in tra mani e bocca, che si estende al mangiarsi le unghie (qui addirittura lo fanno LE RAGAZZE IN PUBBLICO, A SCUOLA, EWW), ma é impensabile in Cina, come se ti stessi mangiando le caccole.
> Idem per il mangiare la pizza con le mani, a loro fa schifo.
>
> Per me date le conoscenze moderne TUTTE le abitudini vanno messe in diacussione ed analizzate in base alle conoscenze mediche attuali, quindi mangiarsi le unghie è come leccare tutto quello che tocchi. Finché sei neonato va bene poi crescendo evita va, e la pizza mangiala con le posate (Z mangia pure gli hamburger con le bacchette).
>
Se le mani le lavi bene, non capisco che problema ci sia.
Ho notato che i koreani usano dei guanti di plastica quando devono mangiare le zampe di gallina in salsa nei vari ristoranti tradizionali.
> Scritto da:
> > Scritto da: dada216
> > > ad ogni modo sono metodi antichi, di quando il nostro rapporto con ciò che "fa schifo" era molto diverso.
> > >
> > > Ecco associare queste cose al fatto che "i Negri fanno schifo " è un operazione superficiale.
> >
> > Quotissimo... e infatti i poveri (di tutti i colori) per sopravvivere fanno tante cose che fanno schifo.
> >
> > Un mio amico per esempio mi raccontava dei senzatetto a Zagabria che si bevono l'urina.
> >
> > Zagabria, non Africa.
> >
> > Io non so se il metodo del cow blowing funzioni oppure no, ma se funziona è comprensibile che i poveri lo usino. Fa schifo, ma forse hanno poca scelta.
> >
> >
>
> Lo stesso identico concetto si applica anche a noi.
>
> Cose che facciamo che fanno schifo (hanno ragione) ai cinesi:
>
> - dita in bocca ed in generale la cross contaminati in tra mani e bocca, che si estende al mangiarsi le unghie (qui addirittura lo fanno LE RAGAZZE IN PUBBLICO, A SCUOLA, EWW), ma é impensabile in Cina, come se ti stessi mangiando le caccole.
> Idem per il mangiare la pizza con le mani, a loro fa schifo.
>
> Per me date le conoscenze moderne TUTTE le abitudini vanno messe in diacussione ed analizzate in base alle conoscenze mediche attuali, quindi mangiarsi le unghie è come leccare tutto quello che tocchi. Finché sei neonato va bene poi crescendo evita va, e la pizza mangiala con le posate (Z mangia pure gli hamburger con le bacchette).
>
Se le mani le lavi bene, non capisco che problema ci sia.
Ho notato che i koreani usano dei guanti di plastica quando devono mangiare le zampe di gallina in salsa nei vari ristoranti tradizionali.
La distancia, nos lleva a otros rumbos, caminos distintos, que no tienen vuelta hacia atrás.
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Finkelhor, D. & Browne, A. (1985). "The traumatic impact of child sexual abuse: A conceptualization," American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 55 (4), 530-541.
Three of the four "tramagenic dynamics" proposed by Finkelhor for child sexual abuse are related to Western society's conceptualization of sex or reaction to CSA. "Betrayal refers to the dynamic by which children discover that someone on whom they were vitally dependent has caused them harm. This may occur in a variety of ways in a molestation experience. For example, in the course of abuse or its aftermath, children may come to the realization that a trusted person has manipulated them through lies or misrepresentations about moral standards. They may also come to realize that someone whom they loved or whose affection was important to them treated them with callous disregard. […] A child who was suspicious of a father’s activities from the beginning may feel less betrayed than one who initially experienced the contact as nurturing and loving and then is suddenly shocked to realize what is really happening. Obviously, the degree of betrayal is also related to a family’s response to disclosure. Children who are disbelieved, blamed, or ostracized undoubtedly experience a greater sense of betrayal than those who are supported. […] Powerlessness – or what might also be called disempowerment, the dynamic of rendering the victim powerless – refers to the process in which the child’s will, desires, and sense of efficacy are continually contravened. […] But force and threat are not necessary; any kind of situation in which a child feels trapped, if only by the realization of the consequences of disclosure, can create a sense of powerlessness. […] Stigmatization, the final dynamic, refers to the negative connotations (e.g., badness, shame, and guilt) that are communicated to the child around the experiences and that then become incorporated into the child’s self-image. These negative meanings are communicated in many ways. They can come directly from the abuser, who may blame the victim for the activity, demean the victim, or furtively convey a sense of shame about the behavior. Pressure for secrecy from the offender can also convey powerful messages of shame and guilt. But stigmatization is also reinforced by attitudes that the victim infers or hears from other persons in the family or community. Stigmatization may thus grow out of the child’s prior knowledge or sense that the activity is considered deviant and taboo, and it is certainly reinforced if, after disclosure, people react with shock or hysteria, or blame the child for what has transpired. Children may be additionally stigmatized by people in their environment who now impute other negative characteristics to the victim (e.g., loose morals or “spoiled goods”) as a result of the molestation. […] Some children may be too young to have much awareness of social attitudes and thus experience little stigmatization, whereas others have to deal with powerful religious and cultural taboos in addition to the usual stigma." The single non-related dynamic ("traumatic sexualization") explains responses that are considered negative because of Western society's conceptualization of sex.
Three of the four "tramagenic dynamics" proposed by Finkelhor for child sexual abuse are related to Western society's conceptualization of sex or reaction to CSA. "Betrayal refers to the dynamic by which children discover that someone on whom they were vitally dependent has caused them harm. This may occur in a variety of ways in a molestation experience. For example, in the course of abuse or its aftermath, children may come to the realization that a trusted person has manipulated them through lies or misrepresentations about moral standards. They may also come to realize that someone whom they loved or whose affection was important to them treated them with callous disregard. […] A child who was suspicious of a father’s activities from the beginning may feel less betrayed than one who initially experienced the contact as nurturing and loving and then is suddenly shocked to realize what is really happening. Obviously, the degree of betrayal is also related to a family’s response to disclosure. Children who are disbelieved, blamed, or ostracized undoubtedly experience a greater sense of betrayal than those who are supported. […] Powerlessness – or what might also be called disempowerment, the dynamic of rendering the victim powerless – refers to the process in which the child’s will, desires, and sense of efficacy are continually contravened. […] But force and threat are not necessary; any kind of situation in which a child feels trapped, if only by the realization of the consequences of disclosure, can create a sense of powerlessness. […] Stigmatization, the final dynamic, refers to the negative connotations (e.g., badness, shame, and guilt) that are communicated to the child around the experiences and that then become incorporated into the child’s self-image. These negative meanings are communicated in many ways. They can come directly from the abuser, who may blame the victim for the activity, demean the victim, or furtively convey a sense of shame about the behavior. Pressure for secrecy from the offender can also convey powerful messages of shame and guilt. But stigmatization is also reinforced by attitudes that the victim infers or hears from other persons in the family or community. Stigmatization may thus grow out of the child’s prior knowledge or sense that the activity is considered deviant and taboo, and it is certainly reinforced if, after disclosure, people react with shock or hysteria, or blame the child for what has transpired. Children may be additionally stigmatized by people in their environment who now impute other negative characteristics to the victim (e.g., loose morals or “spoiled goods”) as a result of the molestation. […] Some children may be too young to have much awareness of social attitudes and thus experience little stigmatization, whereas others have to deal with powerful religious and cultural taboos in addition to the usual stigma." The single non-related dynamic ("traumatic sexualization") explains responses that are considered negative because of Western society's conceptualization of sex.
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Coffey, P., Leitenberg, H., Henning, K., Turner, T., & Bennett, R. T. (1996). "Mediators of the long-term impact of child sexual abuse: Perceived stigma, betrayal, powerlessness, and self-blame," Child Abuse & Neglect, 20(5), pp.447-455
"Regression analyses entering only the level of sexual activity to predict the mediator variables found that level of sexual activity was related to stigma […] The level of sexual activity was also a direct predictor o1 the GSI when entered into a regression as the sole predictor […] However, when level of sexual activity and the mediator variables were used in combination to predict GSI, this analysis yielded an X2 of .33, F(5,168) = 16.71, p < .0000 and the only predictors that accounted for unique variance in the GSI were two of the mediators. They were stigma (B = .36), F = 17.04, p < .001 and self-blame (B = .25), F = 11.99, p < .0007. The level of sexual activity was no longer a significant predictor of the GSI score when the mediators were entered into the equation. The results of this path analysis therefore indicate that the only mediational paths in predicting adjustment on the GSI were for level of sexual activity via stigma and self-blame. […] Because the path analysis tests a particular mediation model it is also fair to say that these results support the hypothesis that stigma and self-blame may underlie the long-term negative impact of a child sexual abuse experience. […] Clearly feelings of self-blame and stigma regarding child sexual abuse can linger long into adulthood. This sense of feeling ashamed, tainted, and blameworthy regarding the abuse may impact adjustment by affecting the survivor's core beliefs about their worth as a person. Struggling with these feelings may result in heightened levels of psychological distress. These findings further suggest that feelings of both stigma and serf-blame in adulthood are particularly affected by the level of sexual activity involved in the abusive experience. It may be that higher levels of sexual activity result in an increased sense of being "damaged goods" and tainted due to a greater sense of personal and societal violation. Certainly society considers intercourse to be the most taboo form of sexual contact with children."
"Regression analyses entering only the level of sexual activity to predict the mediator variables found that level of sexual activity was related to stigma […] The level of sexual activity was also a direct predictor o1 the GSI when entered into a regression as the sole predictor […] However, when level of sexual activity and the mediator variables were used in combination to predict GSI, this analysis yielded an X2 of .33, F(5,168) = 16.71, p < .0000 and the only predictors that accounted for unique variance in the GSI were two of the mediators. They were stigma (B = .36), F = 17.04, p < .001 and self-blame (B = .25), F = 11.99, p < .0007. The level of sexual activity was no longer a significant predictor of the GSI score when the mediators were entered into the equation. The results of this path analysis therefore indicate that the only mediational paths in predicting adjustment on the GSI were for level of sexual activity via stigma and self-blame. […] Because the path analysis tests a particular mediation model it is also fair to say that these results support the hypothesis that stigma and self-blame may underlie the long-term negative impact of a child sexual abuse experience. […] Clearly feelings of self-blame and stigma regarding child sexual abuse can linger long into adulthood. This sense of feeling ashamed, tainted, and blameworthy regarding the abuse may impact adjustment by affecting the survivor's core beliefs about their worth as a person. Struggling with these feelings may result in heightened levels of psychological distress. These findings further suggest that feelings of both stigma and serf-blame in adulthood are particularly affected by the level of sexual activity involved in the abusive experience. It may be that higher levels of sexual activity result in an increased sense of being "damaged goods" and tainted due to a greater sense of personal and societal violation. Certainly society considers intercourse to be the most taboo form of sexual contact with children."
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Research has shown that societies stigma of the act may account for a large portion of the harm.
Bauserman, Robert; Rind, Bruce (1997). "Psychological Correlates of Male Child and Adolescent Sexual Experiences with Adults: A Review of the Nonclinical Literature," Archives of Sexual Behavior, 26(2), 105-141.
"Secondary consequences include reactions of others, such as parents and peers, to the sexual contacts. Feelings of guilt and shame regarding the sexual contacts, which are based on perceived violation of one’s own and others’ norms, are also addressed here.
Emotional responses of guilt were related to outcomes, with greater guilt associated with more negative responses, Haugaard and Emery (1989) and Okami (1991) both reported guilt feelings to be associated with negative evaluations of experiences. Stein et al. (1988), in their study of unwanted experience in a community sample, noted that feelings of guilt and shame were common. Risin and Koss (1987) reported that guilt feelings were more common in experiences involving fondling, which were also associated with more force and greater levels of other negative feelings. Finally, Sandfort (1984) reported that when the boys interviewed in his study were asked about negative aspects of their relationships, many cited concerns about possible negative reactions from others, such as parents, peers, and authorities.
The role of socialization in these reactions may be very important. Finkelhor (1979) and Fritz et al. (1981) both suggested that boys’ reactions may be more positive than those of girls because boys are socialized to regard sex in a more positive fashion, whereas girls receive more negative messages. Fritz et at. (1981) stated that although girls typically regarded their experiences as sexual violation, boys often regarded their experiences as sexual initiation.
Clearly, feelings of guilt and shame and concerns about negative reactions from others are associated with negative responses to early sexual contacts with adults. These responses, however, are not inherent in the sexual contact per se but rather stem from social taboos and condemnation (cf. Constantine, 1981). To the extent that boys receive more positive messages regarding sexuality, they are less likely to experience these negative emotions and to react negatively to sexual contacts."
Nelson, Joan A. (1986). "Incest: Self-Report Findings From a Nonclinical Sample," Journal of Sex Research, 22(4), 473-474.
"No force of any kind was found in 49% (68) of the reports. Yet 30% (14) of these no-force experiences were described as negative. The individuals described their otherwise consensual experiences as affected negatively by guilt or fear of social or parental disapproval, an issue which emerged repeatedly in the interviews and written responses, both positive and negative. Approximately half of the female respondents and 4% of the male respondents stated that they continued to experience conflict in regard to their incest experiences, usually associated with, if not a direct result of, guilt, even though many of the relationships had terminated many years before the report. One respondent commented, "I went crazy trying to understand how anything so good could be so bad.""
Higgins, D. J., & McCabe, M. P. (2003). "Maltreatment and Family Dysfunction in Childhood and the Subsequent Adjustment of Children and Adults," Journal of Family Violence, 18(2)
Three co-published studies. In Study 1, "Parental sexual punitiveness, traditionality, family adaptability and family cohesion significantly predicted scores on 4 maltreatment scales and children's externalizing behavior problems." In Study 2, "Parental sexual punitiveness, traditionality, family adaptability, and family cohesion during childhood predicted the level of maltreatment and current psychopathology."
Bauserman, Robert; Rind, Bruce (1997). "Psychological Correlates of Male Child and Adolescent Sexual Experiences with Adults: A Review of the Nonclinical Literature," Archives of Sexual Behavior, 26(2), 105-141.
"Secondary consequences include reactions of others, such as parents and peers, to the sexual contacts. Feelings of guilt and shame regarding the sexual contacts, which are based on perceived violation of one’s own and others’ norms, are also addressed here.
Emotional responses of guilt were related to outcomes, with greater guilt associated with more negative responses, Haugaard and Emery (1989) and Okami (1991) both reported guilt feelings to be associated with negative evaluations of experiences. Stein et al. (1988), in their study of unwanted experience in a community sample, noted that feelings of guilt and shame were common. Risin and Koss (1987) reported that guilt feelings were more common in experiences involving fondling, which were also associated with more force and greater levels of other negative feelings. Finally, Sandfort (1984) reported that when the boys interviewed in his study were asked about negative aspects of their relationships, many cited concerns about possible negative reactions from others, such as parents, peers, and authorities.
The role of socialization in these reactions may be very important. Finkelhor (1979) and Fritz et al. (1981) both suggested that boys’ reactions may be more positive than those of girls because boys are socialized to regard sex in a more positive fashion, whereas girls receive more negative messages. Fritz et at. (1981) stated that although girls typically regarded their experiences as sexual violation, boys often regarded their experiences as sexual initiation.
Clearly, feelings of guilt and shame and concerns about negative reactions from others are associated with negative responses to early sexual contacts with adults. These responses, however, are not inherent in the sexual contact per se but rather stem from social taboos and condemnation (cf. Constantine, 1981). To the extent that boys receive more positive messages regarding sexuality, they are less likely to experience these negative emotions and to react negatively to sexual contacts."
Nelson, Joan A. (1986). "Incest: Self-Report Findings From a Nonclinical Sample," Journal of Sex Research, 22(4), 473-474.
"No force of any kind was found in 49% (68) of the reports. Yet 30% (14) of these no-force experiences were described as negative. The individuals described their otherwise consensual experiences as affected negatively by guilt or fear of social or parental disapproval, an issue which emerged repeatedly in the interviews and written responses, both positive and negative. Approximately half of the female respondents and 4% of the male respondents stated that they continued to experience conflict in regard to their incest experiences, usually associated with, if not a direct result of, guilt, even though many of the relationships had terminated many years before the report. One respondent commented, "I went crazy trying to understand how anything so good could be so bad.""
Higgins, D. J., & McCabe, M. P. (2003). "Maltreatment and Family Dysfunction in Childhood and the Subsequent Adjustment of Children and Adults," Journal of Family Violence, 18(2)
Three co-published studies. In Study 1, "Parental sexual punitiveness, traditionality, family adaptability and family cohesion significantly predicted scores on 4 maltreatment scales and children's externalizing behavior problems." In Study 2, "Parental sexual punitiveness, traditionality, family adaptability, and family cohesion during childhood predicted the level of maltreatment and current psychopathology."
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Rind, Bruce (2001). "Gay and Bisexual Adolescent Boys' Sexual Experiences With Men: An Empirical Examination of Psychological Correlates in a Nonclinical Sample", Archives of Sexual Behavior, 30(4), 345-368
"Over the last quarter century the incest model, with its image of helpless victims exploited and traumatized by powerful perpetrators, has come to dominate perceptions of virtually all forms of adult-minor sex. Thus, even willing sexual relations between gay or bisexual adolescent boys and adult men, which differ from father-daughter incest in many important ways, are generally seen by the lay public and professionals as traumatizing and psychologically injurious. This study assessed this common perception by examining a nonclinical, mostly college sample of gay and bisexual men. Of the 129 men in the study, 26 were identified as having had age-discrepant sexual relations (ADSRs) as adolescents between 12 and 17 years of age with adult males. Men with ADSR experiences were as well adjusted as controls in terms of self-esteem and having achieved a positive sexual identity. Reactions to the ADSRs were predominantly positive, and most ADSRs were willingly engaged in. Younger adolescents were just as willing and reacted at least as positively as older adolescents. Data on sexual identity development indicated that ADSRs played no role in creating same-sex sexual interests, contrary to the "seduction" hypothesis. Findings were inconsistent with the incest model. The incest model has come to act as a procrustean bed, narrowly dictating how adult-minor sexual relations quite different from incest are perceived."
Oellerich, T.D. (1998). "Identifying and Dealing with 'Child Savers'", IPT Journal.
"Kilpatrick (1992) concluded that early child and adolescent sexual experiences, unless there was force or high pressure involved, had no influence on later adult functioning regardless of the type of partner involved (i.e., relative or non-relative) or the age differences. She reported that, when she discussed her findings with professionals, they closed their ears to them. They were most closed to those findings that indicated positive reactions to these early sexual experiences and to those findings that indicated that incestuous experiences did not cause irreparable harm."
"Long-Range Effects of Child and Adolescent Sexual Experiences Positive Review", Allie C. Kilpatrick.
This book will be disturbing to many readers. The assumption that all children are "damaged" by their experiences is challenged by Kilpatrick's finding that 38% of the adult respondents reported the sexual experiences as children to be "pleasant" while only 25% reported them to be "unpleasant." Kilpatrick also found that, although the majority of the women stated that the experience was initiated by the partner, for many (23% of the children 0-14 years and 39% of adolescents 15-17 years) the women reported having been the initiator. Another surprising finding was that only 4% of the respondents reported that they would have liked to have had counseling.
Kilpatrick's plea to give truth a chance will probably fall on deaf ears. The "child advocates" who believe adult-child sexual contact is always harmful and destructive will see these findings as distracting society from its mission to protect children. Those who believe that all sexually abused children need psychotherapy to help them cope with the experience are not likely to change their views. The implications of this research simply are counter to our society's prevailing political ideology.
Obviously, the confusion about the effects of adult-child sexual contact needs to be clarified for everyone concerned and this study provides important information. If a given child is, in fact, not harmed by a sexual experience with an adult, treating the child like a victim and subjecting the child to months of feeling-expressive play therapy is likely to be iatrogenic. Also, attorneys, social workers, and mental health experts would profit from using Kilpatrick's findings as they apply to various states in judicial proceedings.
This book, which ruptures prevailing myths, should be read by all professionals who deal with child sexual abuse.
Reviewed by LeRoy Schultz, Emeritus Professor of Social Work, West Virginia University.
"Over the last quarter century the incest model, with its image of helpless victims exploited and traumatized by powerful perpetrators, has come to dominate perceptions of virtually all forms of adult-minor sex. Thus, even willing sexual relations between gay or bisexual adolescent boys and adult men, which differ from father-daughter incest in many important ways, are generally seen by the lay public and professionals as traumatizing and psychologically injurious. This study assessed this common perception by examining a nonclinical, mostly college sample of gay and bisexual men. Of the 129 men in the study, 26 were identified as having had age-discrepant sexual relations (ADSRs) as adolescents between 12 and 17 years of age with adult males. Men with ADSR experiences were as well adjusted as controls in terms of self-esteem and having achieved a positive sexual identity. Reactions to the ADSRs were predominantly positive, and most ADSRs were willingly engaged in. Younger adolescents were just as willing and reacted at least as positively as older adolescents. Data on sexual identity development indicated that ADSRs played no role in creating same-sex sexual interests, contrary to the "seduction" hypothesis. Findings were inconsistent with the incest model. The incest model has come to act as a procrustean bed, narrowly dictating how adult-minor sexual relations quite different from incest are perceived."
Oellerich, T.D. (1998). "Identifying and Dealing with 'Child Savers'", IPT Journal.
"Kilpatrick (1992) concluded that early child and adolescent sexual experiences, unless there was force or high pressure involved, had no influence on later adult functioning regardless of the type of partner involved (i.e., relative or non-relative) or the age differences. She reported that, when she discussed her findings with professionals, they closed their ears to them. They were most closed to those findings that indicated positive reactions to these early sexual experiences and to those findings that indicated that incestuous experiences did not cause irreparable harm."
"Long-Range Effects of Child and Adolescent Sexual Experiences Positive Review", Allie C. Kilpatrick.
This book will be disturbing to many readers. The assumption that all children are "damaged" by their experiences is challenged by Kilpatrick's finding that 38% of the adult respondents reported the sexual experiences as children to be "pleasant" while only 25% reported them to be "unpleasant." Kilpatrick also found that, although the majority of the women stated that the experience was initiated by the partner, for many (23% of the children 0-14 years and 39% of adolescents 15-17 years) the women reported having been the initiator. Another surprising finding was that only 4% of the respondents reported that they would have liked to have had counseling.
Kilpatrick's plea to give truth a chance will probably fall on deaf ears. The "child advocates" who believe adult-child sexual contact is always harmful and destructive will see these findings as distracting society from its mission to protect children. Those who believe that all sexually abused children need psychotherapy to help them cope with the experience are not likely to change their views. The implications of this research simply are counter to our society's prevailing political ideology.
Obviously, the confusion about the effects of adult-child sexual contact needs to be clarified for everyone concerned and this study provides important information. If a given child is, in fact, not harmed by a sexual experience with an adult, treating the child like a victim and subjecting the child to months of feeling-expressive play therapy is likely to be iatrogenic. Also, attorneys, social workers, and mental health experts would profit from using Kilpatrick's findings as they apply to various states in judicial proceedings.
This book, which ruptures prevailing myths, should be read by all professionals who deal with child sexual abuse.
Reviewed by LeRoy Schultz, Emeritus Professor of Social Work, West Virginia University.
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Very few children are harmed by sexual encounters with adults or peers.
Levine, J. (1996). "A Question of Abuse," Mother Jones.
"What's wrong with these things? "They make parents nervous," says Allie Kilpatrick, a social work professor at the University of Georgia who conducted a massive review of the literature on childhood sexual experiences, both wanted and unwanted, and administered her own 33-page questionnaire to 501 Southern women. Most of Kilpatrick's subjects had kissed and hugged, fondled and masturbated as adolescents, and more than a quarter had had vaginal intercourse. Her conclusion: "The majority of young people who experience some kind of sexual behavior find it pleasurable, without much guilt, and with no harmful consequences." A similar study of 526 New England undergraduates revealed "no differences…between sibling, nonsibling, and no-[sexual]-experience groups on a variety of adult sexual behavior and sexual adjustment measures."
Rind, Bruce & Tromovitch, Philip (1997). "A meta-analytic review of findings from national samples on psychological correlates of child sexual abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 34, 237-255.
"The self-reported effects data contradict the conclusions or implications presented in previous literature reviews that harmful effects stemming from CSA are pervasive and intense in the population of persons with this experience. Baker and Duncan (1985) found that, although some respondents reported permanent harm stemming from their CSA experiences (4% of males and 13% of females), the overwhelming majority did not (96% of males and 87% of females). Severe or intense harm would be expected to linger into adulthood, but this did not occur for most respondents in this national sample, according to their self-reports, contradicting the conclusion or implication of intense harm stemming from CSA in the typical case. Meta-analyses of CSA-adjustment relations from the five national studies that reported results of adjustment measures revealed a consistent pattern: SA respondents were less well adjusted than control respondents. Importantly, however, the size of this difference (i.e., effect size) was consistently small in the case of both males and females. The unbiased effect size estimate for males and females combined was ru = .08, which indicates that CSA, assuming that it was responsible for the adjustment difference between SA and control respondents, did not produce intense problems on average."
Steever, E. E., Follette, V. M., & Naugle, A. E. (2001). "The correlates of male adults' perceptions of their early sexual experiences," Journal of Traumatic Stress, 14(1), 189–204.
"Three groups of participants were assessed for this study: (1) men who report no history of childhood sexual experiences or report a history of consensual childhood and adolescent sexual experiences with peers (less than five years age difference; NSA), (2) men who do not identify themselves as survivors of childhood sexual abuse, but report a history of childhood or adolescent (before age eighteen) sexual experiences that were coercive/forced in nature, occurred with an individual at least 5 years older than the subject, or were incestuous in nature (involved an older family member), thus satisfying typical research definitions of child sexual abuse (ESE), and (3) men who report a history of childhood sexual experiences that they label as sexual abuse (CSA). […] Analysis of variance between groups revealed that Group CSA (M = .71, SD = .42) reported significantly more distress than Group NSA (M = .40, SD = .36) or Group ESE did (M = .46, SD = .22). […] Consistent with our hypotheses, participants in Group CSA were twice as likely to have participated in psychotherapy as participants in Group ESE. In fact, more than half of Group CSA reported that they had sought mental health treatment. […] Participants in Group ESE, who by standard research criteria would be classified as "abused" did not seek out mental health counseling to a statistically greater degree than participants in Group NSA. Because the participants in Group ESE did not report higher levels of psychological distress than those in Group NSA, it seems likely that these men did not seek treatment because of lack of distress."
Levine, J. (1996). "A Question of Abuse," Mother Jones.
"What's wrong with these things? "They make parents nervous," says Allie Kilpatrick, a social work professor at the University of Georgia who conducted a massive review of the literature on childhood sexual experiences, both wanted and unwanted, and administered her own 33-page questionnaire to 501 Southern women. Most of Kilpatrick's subjects had kissed and hugged, fondled and masturbated as adolescents, and more than a quarter had had vaginal intercourse. Her conclusion: "The majority of young people who experience some kind of sexual behavior find it pleasurable, without much guilt, and with no harmful consequences." A similar study of 526 New England undergraduates revealed "no differences…between sibling, nonsibling, and no-[sexual]-experience groups on a variety of adult sexual behavior and sexual adjustment measures."
Rind, Bruce & Tromovitch, Philip (1997). "A meta-analytic review of findings from national samples on psychological correlates of child sexual abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 34, 237-255.
"The self-reported effects data contradict the conclusions or implications presented in previous literature reviews that harmful effects stemming from CSA are pervasive and intense in the population of persons with this experience. Baker and Duncan (1985) found that, although some respondents reported permanent harm stemming from their CSA experiences (4% of males and 13% of females), the overwhelming majority did not (96% of males and 87% of females). Severe or intense harm would be expected to linger into adulthood, but this did not occur for most respondents in this national sample, according to their self-reports, contradicting the conclusion or implication of intense harm stemming from CSA in the typical case. Meta-analyses of CSA-adjustment relations from the five national studies that reported results of adjustment measures revealed a consistent pattern: SA respondents were less well adjusted than control respondents. Importantly, however, the size of this difference (i.e., effect size) was consistently small in the case of both males and females. The unbiased effect size estimate for males and females combined was ru = .08, which indicates that CSA, assuming that it was responsible for the adjustment difference between SA and control respondents, did not produce intense problems on average."
Steever, E. E., Follette, V. M., & Naugle, A. E. (2001). "The correlates of male adults' perceptions of their early sexual experiences," Journal of Traumatic Stress, 14(1), 189–204.
"Three groups of participants were assessed for this study: (1) men who report no history of childhood sexual experiences or report a history of consensual childhood and adolescent sexual experiences with peers (less than five years age difference; NSA), (2) men who do not identify themselves as survivors of childhood sexual abuse, but report a history of childhood or adolescent (before age eighteen) sexual experiences that were coercive/forced in nature, occurred with an individual at least 5 years older than the subject, or were incestuous in nature (involved an older family member), thus satisfying typical research definitions of child sexual abuse (ESE), and (3) men who report a history of childhood sexual experiences that they label as sexual abuse (CSA). […] Analysis of variance between groups revealed that Group CSA (M = .71, SD = .42) reported significantly more distress than Group NSA (M = .40, SD = .36) or Group ESE did (M = .46, SD = .22). […] Consistent with our hypotheses, participants in Group CSA were twice as likely to have participated in psychotherapy as participants in Group ESE. In fact, more than half of Group CSA reported that they had sought mental health treatment. […] Participants in Group ESE, who by standard research criteria would be classified as "abused" did not seek out mental health counseling to a statistically greater degree than participants in Group NSA. Because the participants in Group ESE did not report higher levels of psychological distress than those in Group NSA, it seems likely that these men did not seek treatment because of lack of distress."